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EMIGRATION,
N.Y. - The story of an Expulsion
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FAX
dialogue between Amos VOGEL and Egon HUMER In
1993, on the occasion of the Viennale Retrospective „Flucht
ins Ungewisse - Österreichische Filmschaffende in der Emigration“
[„Flight into Uncertainty - Austrian Film-Makers in Emigration“]
Amos Vogel and Egon Humer met in Vienna. On this occasion, Vogel
also talked about his emigration to the USA.
[...] It is quite obvious that a fax unit would be essential for both of us. Letters often take a week OR DO NOT ARRIVE AT ALL; and with the telephone you have this six-hour problem. And I am quite certain that frequently questions will come up which require a speedy response. [...] For the first time in forty years, I am now writing „in German“; and I am ashamed of not being able to express so many things not quite properly. But this, too, is part of living in exile: A very important part. I have been deprived of my mother tong ue and I am only slowly learning to use it again - like a person who has suffered a stroke and now is trying to walk again. He manages only partially and with difficulty, and he never again will completely attain control over these complex motions.
5) In principle, we should give the people as much time as they need. For some it will be easier to enter into this dialogue, for others quite a bit harder. Whenever the past suddenly becomes alive this is rarely an orderly process, in particular with people who have not been talking about the past for a long time. This means that we need the time which they themselves need. Consequently, I figure about two days per person. How the dialog will eventually come out is also very much a matter of trust. 8) I believe it is essential that we limit our topic to New York. [...]
You have to understand that you are automatically making some kind of pre-selection if you say you want only New Yorkers appearing in your film. To make the grade per se is difficult over here, and since these people live here, this means that in a certain sense they have „already made it“. (Thus they are successful - success stories, though on a minor scale.) Secondly, I have to assume that most of these New York Jews were „middle-class“; otherwise they could not have come into the United States (all of them had to get AFFIDAVITS [of Support], which means that a relative with sufficient money had to guarantee their „upkeep“ for a few years. (Although I haven’t researched this, I am very definitely under this impression)). [...] 4. I don’t have the slightest idea whether 90% or 30% of the people we know want to be part of this. I am, however, certain that some of them will not do it (negative feelings vis-á-vis Austria, etc.) This means I have no way of predicting how fast we can get things done. [...] I would like to thank you for giving me the chance to have to write in German once again though I am painfully aware of the fact that never again will I have full command of the language. But perhaps I shall gradually improve; - you will simply have to be patient with me. As you know only too well, I did not intentionally forget our language. [...]
1. I think the film should focus on six persons. 2. I don’t think it makes much sense to limit our choice of interviewees to emigrants speaking German. I believe all interviews should be conducted in English. Here, we have several options: One of them would be to ask the questions in German and get the replies in English. Your suggestion to include a person in the film who came to New York only after the War makes a lot of sense.
2b) How many persons should one meet: I think one should approach people in a direct manner; I think there should be about ten. Please send me your list of priorities with respect to this. 2d) „Success stories“: By this I mean extremely widely known people, e.g. ... Billy Wilder, Frederic Morton, or people who are well known in the media over here like Mimi Grossberg. What we need is „success stories on a moderate scale“. [...] 5) Who should be interviewed: These six selected persons who stand for six emigration fates as diverse as possible. As people, they have to be capable of articulating the problem „emigration“, but they must also have the honest intention of entering a dialog. 13) About the interviews: The place for the interviews to be held should be the apartment of the respective interviewee. There, a spot should be selected where the partner to the interview feels comfortable and where one can talk without being disturbed. (The wail of a patrol car’s siren is not a disturbance but part of the atmosphere of the city). Technical trappings (e.g. lights) will be reduced to a bare minimum. [...] Each person should be interviewed twice for six to eight hours. One reason for scheduling such lengthy interviews is that we will have to go far into the past and that we should not feel the pressure of time running out. I believe it is really important to take enough time and to listen carefully. On general principle, the questions enclosed with the concept will be asked of all interview partners, except where the wish not to reply to certain questions is explicitly expressed. The questions themselves provide a guideline. The interviews themselves should be conducted „non-directively“, meaning that the interviewer goes along with the topic instead of the interviewees following the questions. 14) Concepts/Questions: From where I sit, this is a thing I cannot judge. In principle, I think the people should be informed about what we are planning. Perhaps some of them will be a bit intimidated or scared by all these many questions. But I think they have to be made to realize that we are honestly interested in a dialog. [...]
4)
You would like to know whether these people have lost relatives
in the Holocaust. 5)
THE TITLE OF THE FILM:
In early December (after nearly ten years of research) the "Dokumentationsarchiv des österreichischen Widerstandes" will publish the volume(s) „Österreicher im Exil - USA 1938-1945“. The author, Dr. Peter EPPEL of the Historical Museum of the City of Vienna, in an earlier work defined „exile“ and „emigration“ as follows: „This work is based on the assumption that ‘exile’ presupposed a return, while ‘emigration’ is of a permanent nature. According to Eppel, ‘exile’ is only valid for the duration of the war, ‘emigration’, however, if the stay extends beyond the duration of the war.“ Dr. Peter Marboe (Austrian Ministry of Foreign Affairs), who personally knows many exiles in New York, in his introduction to the film documentation „Wien - New York. Rückkehr in Büchern“ writes of the ‘exiled Austrians’. There are two beautiful poems by B.Brecht: „Über die Bezeichnung Emigrant“ and „Gedanken über die Dauer des Exils“ [...] To me, the title „EMIGRATION“ has always been a working title. But it is particularly important to me to clarify already in the title that we cannot describe the history of „Emigration“ or of „Exile“ as such, but only certain aspects. Basically, these remain fragments of emigration or of exile. I think it will be very important for us to find also an emotional approach to our theme. Your statement on „Nightmail“ - the English documentary you saw in Vienna as a young lad: „I was deeply moved for it proved that it is possible to (in-)fuse documentary material with the poetic.“ - made me think about a possible poetic structuring of the theme. Also as a contrast to the factual. This will explain my asking you about sounds remembered. I see a second approach, not to be underestimated, in a fragmentary structure of the film. By ‘fragmentary’ I mean a stanza-like structuring of fragments relating to the theme. In this case, the individual stanzas would also be fragments of varying length and different in nature. [...] Are there any sounds you vividly remember ?
What kind of music have you been listening to when you still were in Austria ? And what in America ? Swing, the Classics, Gershwin ? Is the Holocaust absolute silence ? Are there sounds to express lament and mourning (perhaps only a voice) ? Where did you arrive:[New York] harbor or Ellis Island ? How important to us is Ellis Island ? [...] Do you visualize the film in color or B/W ? [...]
9) In my opinion, a fragmentary structure of the film is an excellent possibility. This could, at one and the same time, also be POETICALLY STRUCTURED. 12) SOUNDS: a) In Austria: Horst Wessel Lied. (Old) Austrian national anthem. (Also the Ivrit youth songs of the Kibbutz movement - IN THOSE DAYS, I still was a Socialist-Zionist lad (two-state solution), but I do not want to use them in the film. Of course opera, operetta, Three-Penny Opera, film music. [...] Also on the boat: I slept one night on deck, in a reclining chair. I thought this would be something new. But since we were by then in the TROPICS, it started raining EVERY TEN MINUTES; after two minutes, the rain stopped, then: more rain. Sound: THE SOUND OF WARM, TROPICAL RAIN. IN AMERICA: SWING, JAZZ, FILM MUSIC (A LITTLE), Gershwin, Showboat, Gene Kelly, Fred Astaire, KURT WEILL, CLASSICAL MUSIC; IN THE SIXTIES OF COURSE POP MUSIC, THE MUSIC OF THE BEATS, LENNON, JOPLIN, WOODSTOCK, LATER THE BEATLES - BUT ALSO LOTS OF CLASSICAL MUSIC - MOZART, BEETHOVEN, HAYDN, BRUCKNER - here I am already back in Vienna ... HOLOCAUST: Yes, silence, as you put it; excellent idea. But also ancient Jewish prayers of mourning ( all were sung with much ‘emphasis’, not spoken. There are also prayers for the dead („Yiskor“). Also many Jewish tragic „folk“ songs. Color or B/W ?? A tricky question. My first impression: B/W. This entire story should not be „colorful“. But we should talk about this some more. What do you think? [...]
It would be best if you could convince Prisma and the Film Förderungs Fonds that you should make a three-hour film. I am quite serious about this. But I know exactly how hard it is to get [enough] money. [...]
We can schedule a maximum of four appointments per day. As for the time of day: 10 a.m., 2 p.m., 5 p.m., 8 p.m. (lunch: at 1 p.m.) would be good ! [...] a) The problem of payment of reparations is a rather touchy one. Of course we shall not simply skip this problem in our film. In his letter, Henry Wegner writes of the „Wiedergutmachungsdesaster“ [reparations desaster] (a fitting term). After the War, Edmund Engelmann even initiated [appropriate] litigation (see Annex Fax). I think that both Mr. Wegner as well as Mr. Engelmann themselves will bring up this matter in their interviews - or I will simply ask them about it. b) It is quite true that in the concept of EMIGRATION only the effects of the problem are dealt with, while the causes of emigration/exile themselves will not be shown. I have already recognized this as a flaw and I aim to correct it. [...]
IMPORTANT: I agree with you that your film has to deal not only with the results of the problem but also with the causes of emigration; but that won’t be easy... [...]
There are only a very few still living there and I have found out where one might perhaps see them - also a cafè where many of them spend their time. We could meet in this cafè, but somehow this is as if we were making an appointment to meet in Grinzing .. . [...]
Perhaps you remember your remark: „The theme is larger than the persons that appear in it and it is more encompassing than the film itself.“ - Of course it is also larger than the man who is making the film. I have been thinking of this when I truly felt the dimensions of the theme for the first time. This, of course, made me doubtful and I did not know whether I would be able to measure up to this task ! Yet, since our meetings everything is clear to me. To me, these activities all around us are an indication of the fact that our project is timely and fits into a current trend. The problem is not the surfeit of information but the proper selection and compression of the material down to its emotionally palpable truthfulness. I know I’m sounding off - but your questions give me assurance when it comes to properly working out important things. That we seem to be thinking alike in these matters gives me a good feeling, but the film also has to be created and segmented into reality. The following chapter structure has emerged for the America sequence:
I now also believe that for two reasons we should forget about the customary archive clips:
I should very much like to play this to our interviewees during the interview. Do you think this could be done ? This would certainly evoke powerful emotions ! [...]
Egon
Humer to Amos Vogel, January 15, 1995
12. I have not found any 9.5-mm films, but repeat that, in my opinion, such „home movies“ from the days of my childhood do not exist - UNLESS, TRUE TO FREUD, I HAVE MANAGED TO COMPLETELY REPRESS ALL OF THIS. For that I would need a psychiatrist, and this over here now would cost me about $10,000, and if then, at long last, I start remembering everything, I am dead. [...] The tragedy in Austria involving the four gypsies touched me to the core.
Thank you for your expression of sympathy for the murdered Roma. Here in Austria, sympathy seems to be rather limited and to be also an expression of the current ‘climate’. But the press and the politicians did their best to assure us that Roma are human, too. I guess you know what I mean. [...]
Of course we should have as much archive material as possible - even for this rough cut. Consequently, I am enclosing a preliminary „search list“ for the archive material. Perhaps you can give us some hints with respect to the New York material. [...] For KLEIN’S N.Y. we are looking for film material or photographs shot between 1938 and 1950. Lisa Grad’s father, together with other emigrants, was hired there to pick up the clothing people had dropped on the floor while trying them on. Any idea who might help us with this? Do you think the Jewish Museum has documented this sort of thing ? [...]
Egon
Humer to Amos Vogel, May 19, 1995 Dear Amos, your opinion means a great deal to me. Thus I am asking you to send me your impressions of the rough cut even before going to Fire Island. A first impression would be enough; it doesn’t have to be a searching analysis. What I am interested in above all is whether you think I have failed to integrate areas which - with respect to CONTENT - are important. [...]
There was a point in my interview - I can’t recall exactly when- where I simply could not go on in the middle of a sentence & nearly burst into tears. This is not in the rough cut and I believe this may have to do with the fact that - quite generally - you do not want to portray Jews as tearful victims; a noble sentiment [Orig.: „ein ruhmwürdiges (Deutsch?) Gefühl“] - but I do not agree. It is perfectly OK to show tears, weakness, or „being a victim“ - SIMPLY BECAUSE THIS IS HUMAN AND, ULTIMATELY, ALL OF US ARE VICTIMS. It
may perhaps surprise you to learn that I - at various points in
the film - NOT DURING MY OWN EPISODES - I found myself moved to
tears. THIS IS SOMETHING, MY DEAR EGON, WHICH WE SHALL NEVER GET
RID OF AS LONG AS WE LIVE. THE MEMORIES SIMPLY ARE TOO And, the way I see it, IT HELPS OTHER PEOPLE, VIEWERS, TO SEE SUCH THINGS: THEY SEE - NOT THE WEAKNESS - BUT THE ENORMITY OF THE CRIMES COMMITTED AGAINST US. IT WOULD BE QUITE OK WITH ME, NAY: EVEN BETTER, IF YOU WERE TO SHOW SUCH A MOMENT (WITH ME). AND - IF YOU HAVE SUCH MOMENTS ALSO FROM OTHER INTERVIEW PARTNERS AMONG YOUR „RAW MATERIAL“ - perhaps you should use such a scene, too. [...] 12) The title of the film ...are you satisfied with it ? What do you think of: EXPULSION/EMIGRATION/NEW YORK ? ‘Emigration’ is a very peaceful expression ... and it smacks of a VOLUNTARY departure !! [...] 14) THE ENDING OF THE FILM. I have to tell you something interesting, something that is perhaps important. You have the film end with my statement on being „citizens of the world“. Your ending the film this way makes me proud. Visually, NOTHING follows - just excellent music. When I saw this for the first time I did not know that it clearly says in the script that you want the photographs to follow, accompanied by the music, as underlay of the end credits. Thus I saw only the BLACK, EMPTY SCREEN, HEARD THE WONDERFUL MUSIC .. . (what is it, any-way ?) .. FOR A VERY LONG TIME .. and I was thinking: This is excellent, highly original. Egon has the courage to do this entirely without visuals. And then ... suddenly ... there appear these UNCANNY PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE CHILDREN ... YOUNG PEOPLE ... and although I recognized some of them from before, I suddenly mentally associated that you are showing the children as VICTIMS [Opfer] .. without any words .. only with this music .. and I was totally, completely overcome by this: Music .. not a single word ... (AFTER THREE SOLID HOURS OF TALK !!) A marvelous ending !! [...]
I believe, however, that the film - emotionally speaking - sheltered by the darkness of the projection room, will be more dialog-like [interactive]. I hope to be able to satisfactorily make this point within the time of the film. [...] 6) „EMIGRATION, N.Y.“ = a peaceful title. Exactly right! It smacks of being harmless, but it certainly isn’t !!! This, precisely, is the basic message of the film. Consequently, I feel this „harmlessness“ is right. The title is truly transcending, i.e. it transcends sufficient perception. Besides, Lisa Grad vicariously corrects my use of „emigration“. [...] 14) Yes, this is a way it could be done. At the time of their expulsion, most of the emigrants in the film actually were children. I am very happy you recognized this in this particular way. I am also pleased about your liking the music. Lisa Grad is playing this Beethoven sonata. She did not know why she should play this and at first did not want to. But when at last she did play, I knew: Now she is playing for herself and for all the others in the film. [...]
I am not certain I fully understand you when you write- „In
my opinion, crying frequently reductively modifies [„relativiert“]
...“ „and
leads to a kind of sentimentality that weakens the characters.“ „...
I do not ‘exhibit’ the weeping but internalize it, i.e.
I shift it to the ‘inner plane’.“ „What is important to me is not that the narrator is moved by his own fate. The person to be moved is the viewer." I, however, have noticed - over the past thirty years - that I become most deeply moved when witnessing that the interviewee suddenly STARTS TO CRY. This is to say: I do not see this as something sentimental, but rather as something very profound. I think no one really likes to cry in public - and even less on screen .., and that, when - in spite of this - he is FORCED - by the INTENSITY of his memories - to suddenly weep, this is automatically transferred to the viewer (at least to the sensitive viewer) . In the end you write: „This is why, at the end of the film, I focused on the children as the victims.“ And for this, dear Egon, I wish to thank you very much, - the ending is STUPENDOUS and DEEPLY MOVED me. And I hope other people will feel the same. [.. .] H) Your Item 6) in your fax of June 5,: „EMIGRATION, N.Y.“ = a peaceful title“ ... good ! interesting ! I fully agree. [...] You are asking: HOW WIDELY KNOWN IN NY ARE THE FACTS AND EVENTS ARTICULATED IN THE FILM ? This depends on the matters dealt with: some are quite well known, others not at all. Here, it is a matter of the SPECIFICS of the individual fates. Among „run-of-the-mill“ Americans, most of these things are either unknown or no longer known. [...]
(4) At this point, I don’t know yet how far I will have progressed with the film - there is still so much to be done. It is important to me to once again check the ‘emotional lines’ in the film and to integrate the archive material. [...] e) I think you have very clearly recognized the inherent structure of the material. This to me appears to be important all the more since this structure is actually immanent to the material itself. This means it is, so to speak, delineated and contained in the material. Your strong emotional reaction to it seems to be just right, too. But what the ending actually will look like I shall try to work out in various versions. [...]
FILME: Meine "Zigeuner" Mutter | Leon Askin | Matura | Intifada |
